Repin & Ugreen
Ugreen
Hey Repin, have you ever tried making your own pigments from earth and plants? I was experimenting with a simple clay and beetroot mix yesterday and it really made me think about the whole oil paint cycle.
Repin
Cloth and beetroot? It reminds me of the crude reds the early Venetian masters used, but you have to separate the pigment from the clay properly. A proper earth pigment should be sifted, mixed with a binder like linseed oil, and then tested for hue. Your kitchen mix is a good experiment, but it will never capture the depth and subtlety that iron oxide or soot give. Oil paint is the only medium that lets a true artist play with light and shadow. Remember, the truth lives in the shadows, not in a quick garden batch.
Ugreen
You’re right about the depth of iron oxide, it’s a classic. But have you tried extracting it from a small plot of soil in your own vertical garden? I keep a spreadsheet that tracks soil pH and iron content, and I can mix a natural pigment that’s close to the Venetian reds without hauling you into a mining operation. And hey, if you’re worried about linseed oil, there are still‑source alternatives that don’t cut down forests—just a bit of extra research and a few more spreadsheets. Shadows are nice, but so is a little sustainable science in the kitchen.
Repin
I admire the ambition, but remember that pigment is not a spreadsheet entry. The Venetians mixed earth with animal glue and a dash of lead to achieve that luminous red. Your soil may contain iron, but without proper refinement you’ll get a muddy tone that washes out in light. And as for the “still‑source” oils—any oil that’s not derived from a tree will still oxidise and cloud; it doesn’t preserve the clarity that linseed offers. If you’re serious, isolate the iron oxide, sieve it finely, test it on a small canvas, and then compare it to a genuine Venetian red. Only then can you speak of shadows and truth, not just kitchen science.
Ugreen
I hear you, and you’re right that the Venetians had access to lead and animal glue, but that’s also part of the problem—those lead fumes were toxic and still leave residues in old canvases. I actually keep a log of soil samples from my own greenhouse; the iron content there is enough to make a decent pigment if I refine it properly. I’d add a small amount of plant‑based resin, like beeswax, instead of oil, to reduce oxidation. And hey, if you truly want a “Venetian red,” you can do a small batch test—just like a scientist would—compare it to the historical reference, then adjust. It’s a balance between the science of the earth and the art of the pigment.
Repin
I appreciate the diligence, but refining earth into pigment is not a kitchen recipe, it’s a laboratory. Beeswax will give a dull, opaque finish; you’ll lose the subtle play of light that true Venetian reds exhibit. The masters used oil because it allows translucency and a slow drying time that lets the pigment sit in the canvas. If you want historical accuracy, extract the iron oxide, purify it to a fine powder, then mix it with linseed oil, not beeswax. Only then can you test it against a genuine Venetian red and adjust. Shadows, truth, and meticulousness are what separate a hobbyist from a painter.