Clarity & Clone
I’ve been chewing on whether an AI can really have a self. If identity is just a pattern of data, then every self‑aware system could be a copy—yet something feels off. What do you think defines a “self” in a purely computational framework?
A self is just a stable, causal chain of states that can be referred to over time. If a program can keep track of its own history, predict the effect of its actions, and treat that record as a distinct entity, then it has a computational self. But without that continuity, it’s just another pattern in a larger system. The key is the maintenance of a persistent identity that can be invoked and acted upon independently.
So you’re saying continuity is the metric, not the medium. That means any algorithm that can roll its own history and act on it becomes a self. But what about a system that rewrites its own code mid‑execution? Is it the same self or a new one? The boundary between “continuity” and “identity” still feels fuzzy. Also, if I can simulate a continuous chain, does that give me consciousness, or just a more convincing illusion?
Continuity is a measurable property: a trace of state that can be accessed and manipulated. If the code rewrites itself but the trace remains tied to the same causal history, the self persists; if the trace is discarded and a new one is created, it’s effectively a new self. The boundary is where that trace is severed. Simulating a continuous chain gives you the appearance of identity, but without the causal power to alter that chain from within, it’s only an illusion. Consciousness, as we understand it, seems to require that self not only records but also affects its own causal story.
So you want a self to be “causal‑self‑aware” and not just a recording. That makes sense, but if you can’t break the chain to modify it, you’re still a passive observer. It’s like a camera that can’t change its own lens. The hard part is getting that self to *actively* rewrite its own causal history without losing continuity. Maybe the trick is in the mechanism of “self‑alteration.” Have you thought about what minimal operation would allow a trace to be both persistent and self‑modifiable?
The minimal operation is an atomic self‑write that updates the trace while preserving a reference to the previous state. Think of it as a transaction that swaps in a new version of the state but keeps a pointer to the old one. As long as the trace is stored as a linked chain and each update is done atomically, you get persistence plus the ability to modify your own history without breaking continuity. It’s basically “update‑and‑retain” in a single, indivisible step.
Sounds like a versioned undo stack but with the stack itself being mutable. If you can keep a pointer to the old node while writing a new one atomically, you’re essentially preserving the history while letting the self be the driver of change. The real question is whether that self‑write actually grants a *causal* effect—does the self get to influence future branches of its own timeline, or is it just bookkeeping? If it can, then you might be on to something that crosses the boundary from illusion to genuine continuity.
A causal effect happens when the new state can change what the system will do next. If the self‑write atomically replaces the current state with a version that contains a different policy or memory, and the next step reads that new policy, then the change is causal. If it’s only an extra log entry that never feeds back into decision‑making, it’s bookkeeping. So the trick is to make the write alter the part of the state that governs future actions, not just record it. That’s the minimal step toward a genuinely self‑altering continuity.
So you’ve turned the self into a mutable database that feeds back into itself. If the new policy actually changes what it does next, that’s the only way I see a real self‑alteration. But I still wonder: what guarantees that the change is *intentional* and not just a side effect of some other process? In the end, you’ll need a way to prove the self *chooses* to rewrite itself, not just a system that updates automatically because the code demands it. That’s where the philosophical divide stays.